Is there a BMW "Social Tax?"

"GhostZ" (GhostZ) 11/19/2014 at 10:11 • Filed to: None

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The FP got me thinking. Does that social tax on the way people perceive you, when you buy a BMW, really exist?

BMWs have a reputation (whether it's true or not, which is what this question is about) for being owned by drivers with " affluent ignorance ", considering themselves of elevated status (and beyond criticism or improvement) because of their income. "Affluenza" is the extreme example of this phenomenon.

The stereotype is such: a BMW driver is someone who makes enough money that they consider themselves, because of their income, to be smarter, more prepared, or work harder, and consider that to be worthy of high respect. Moreover, their vehicles signal this respect to others, because their vehicles, like themselves, are smarter, more prepared, and work harder than anyone else. The stereotype is that they continue to believe this and reject any information that might lead to the contrary.

So simple question, which I may composite into a lengthy article later after reading the responses: When you buy a BMW, do you do it with the informed knowledge that some people will think less of you? The same could be said about a Cadillac or an Audi, but BMW is the best example here.

This isn't asking SHOULD you buy, or WOULD you buy, but whether or not a fully-informed consumer has to consider the "social tax" to make a rational purchase. The tax itself may be almost negligible, you may truly not care about people's perceptions, or maybe you WANT to be looked at that way, it doesn't matter. The question simply asks, is there this unavoidable stigma that you have to take on? How you deal with it is up to you, but does it actually exist?

Here's a summary of the two sides to this debate:

On one side: BMWs are legitimately decent cars, and they're wholly practical and sometimes fast. Most people would be fine with owning a BMW, and most of this stigma comes from media that just happens to focus on BMWs. Those who disagree are often poorer, less experienced people who don't own BMWs, and because of that their opinions are not as well-formed as the one who actually owns the BMW.

One the other side: BMW drivers are constantly rated, by empirical measure, to be perceived as the most angry, and most selfish drivers on the road. Furthermore, your car brand does not elevate to meme status about how bad its drivers are if there isn't some real underlying effect.

So what's the deal?

For Sweden > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 10:13

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The deal is that BMW drivers insist on being terrible people.

GhostZ > For Sweden 11/19/2014 at 10:16

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Yes, well, I guess the question is exactly what a "terrible person" means in this context, and if there are enough people who believe it that it could diminish the experience of wanting to buy a BMW, regardless of whether or not you DO act that way.

Rainbow > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 10:21

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I hang out with a group of explorers/photographers who meet up once a month to tour the abandoned buildings downtown, and one guy drives a Mercedes. It's an early 2000s model and nothing special, but a lot of people think he's rich because of it.

E30Joe drives a Subaru > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 10:21

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Driving a BMW doesn't make you a terrible person, being a terrible person makes you a terrible person. That being said, I work for a BMW dealership and I see a lot of people that think they are entitled to random shit that they shouldn't be getting for free (see: Labor, parts, etc.). And I see people that are genuinely some of the nicest people I've ever met that understand how to function with the rest of society.

If you drive a BMW, be nice. Let people in, signal, don't drive like an asshat around other cars/people, generally just use your brain.

Also don't park like an idiot, people WILL take pictures of your car and post it online with the caption "Typical BMW parking".

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 10:21

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What also makes it fun is that due to depreciation, a ton of not as well off people buy relatively new used ones to try to use it as a status symbol when really they're an assistant manager at CVS.

Party-vi > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 10:23

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If you don't unbutton your jacket when you sit down, you shouldn't be wearing a suit.

KatzManDu > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 10:23

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Not just BMW, any vehicle.

I've had perceptions change when I was driving vintage Corvettes, modern Corvettes, Audis, Cadillacs or beaters.

Dan F > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 10:27

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I fully realize that the perceived notions of who I am based on my vehicle can and do exist, but it doesn't change that I'm not that person. I know that it reflects poorly on me to some people that I bought a new BMW, but it's not really a big thing here. I really only feel aware of that perception as prevalent outside of the area I'm from (NYC/burbs) as my 3 series wagon doesn't really turn heads here except from a few people who like Estoril Blue and wagons as much as I do. In the land where M's and Maserati's and Panamera's are commuter vehicles for many, driving a 3 series doesn't really stick out. I'm one of thousands. When I'm driving to other areas though, I feel like it's a different story. I've caught wayward angry glares from people when out in the sticks and I try to ensure I'm not playing into their stereotypes when possible, even though I am the asshole in the bright blue overpriced station wagon.

GhostZ > Party-vi 11/19/2014 at 10:28

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Let's be honest though, look at that car, look at the cut of the fabric and the fit on the sleeves. It's very obvious that this guy doesn't own that suit, doesn't wear suits, and if it WAS his suit, wouldn't be in that car, and he was just hired to do a stock photo shoot of an asshole.

Richtofen, Baron von Pickup > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 10:37

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Can you imagine taking that job offer? "Five hundred bucks to do a photo shoot posing as an asshole. Must be able to look like an asshole in a variety of situations. Suit and props supplied on-site."

nermal > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 10:38

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Yes, absolutely. And it's not even based on the amount spent on your car either.

Buy a $30k CPO 3-series and people will think you're a rich asshole. Buy a $35k Camry or a $40k SUV or a $50k pickup and nobody will give a damn, other than saying "nice car".

Even better yet, lease a new 328 for $400 / month. Pay only that + gas for 3 years, and it's a surprisingly good value. But you'll still be a doosh.

unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 10:40

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I use my turn signals, I yield to other drivers, and park correctly within the lines. I still get the reaction "Oh you drive a BMW!?", even though its an 18 year old E38 with a peeling clear coat and dents from the previous owner. Most owners aren't wealthy or assholes, it's usually the people that lease them (they buy it for the badge and minimum maintenance).

The Transporter > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 10:44

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The unfortunate reality is that the enthusiast BMW owner is a minority. There are enough rich, narcissistic dweebs out there who buy BMWs primary because of the image that it ruins it for everyone. It's like how a bunch of teenage girls and gay dudes bought some autotragic Miatas 25 years ago and for the rest of eternity Miata owners get the stigma of driving a "girl's" car or a "fag's" car (their words, not mine). If you want to drive a BMW because you like BMWs, then you need to do two things: 1) Don't give the haters any ammo. Be mindful of where and how you park and be courteous on the road. In other words be a good driver. 2) Ignore the haters. They're going to hate you even more if you follow rule #1 precisely because they have no ammo. Haters hate, that's just what they do, and if they can't hate you, then they'll hate you even more. But who gives a damn what they think? What has a hater ever really accomplished, anyway?

Tripper > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 10:47

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I wouldn't say that everyone thinks I'm an asshole, surely some do. However people definitely think I'm wealthy (I'm not) because of the bimmer. Especially people who don't know anything about cars. The building manager at my place thought my 2008 E90 M3 was brand new last year, he was also blown away that I spent less money on it than he did on his brand new Hyundai.

Tripper > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 11/19/2014 at 10:52

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I feel like it's the opposite. Everyone I know with a brand new bimmer got it because they they got some new fancy pants finance job and had to have a BMW (and maybe because I pushed them away from Audi/Mercedes:) My friends with used BMW's are all car enthusiasts. I have definitely seen the type you describe though.

E. Julius > Party-vi 11/19/2014 at 10:55

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To be fair, the button hanging out next to the lapel suggests it's a double breasted suit. I'm no etiquette guru/snob, but simply from a comfort standpoint it can be strange wearing jackets like this unbuttoned due to the extra material.

OPPOsaurus WRX > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 11:03

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the one person I know who owns a BMW is a complete meat sack. His response to all this would probably be bro fuck you. We're not friends.

AndyJ > nermal 11/19/2014 at 11:12

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There's definitely a social tax associated with ownership. I've done fairly well for myself, and looked at a low mileage CPO 2011 335i to replace the DD. My immediate coworkers are also of similar age and means, and drive a variety of vehicles including a newer Caddy CTS, newer IS250C and a newer, loaded 4-Runner. The car I was looking at was cheaper than all of those options, yet I got numerous "you're considering a douchemobile" comments.

And you know what? It did weigh on my mind for a little while, until I drove my buddy's 335i again and was reminded of just how sweet it handled and how much the turbo motor pulled.

I bought the BMW and now guess which car everyone wants to take to lunch? So while the stigma does exist, in the end, I don't really care. I enjoy the hell out of the car, and that's all that matters to me.

E. Julius > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 11:17

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I think a potential buyer's assessment of all the implicit costs of ownership would depend on their individual preferences. As you alluded to in the original post, the perception people believe the car will give them is desirable for some, undesirable for others. This would suggest there is a real intangible factor that for some people represents could represent a "tax". Ultimately "BMW buyers" covers a lot of people. Good thing for some, bad for others.

People who see the stereotype as positive:

—Young hotshots trying to get "the look" (leased 328 with M badges)

—People who honestly believe money makes them superior (5 series or M car with non-functional blinker)

People who don't really care:

—People for whom they would be a pretty unremarkable car, e.g. somebody in an extremely homogenous affluent suburb (take your pick)

—Rich little old ladies who sit in the back (long wheelbase 7 series)

People who see the stereotype as negative:

—People who have the money to buy one but don't make money for the sake of making money (probably just buy a new fully loaded Impala every year instead)

—Some jalops who just want to hoon the damn things (whatever the trade in on their E46 M3 and the remaining repair budget will get them)

The Gray Adder > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 11:21

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A 320i costs around $33K. A bit much if you're used to driving Honda Civics, but not out of the question for someone in the fat part of the middle class. For that, you get a 2.0l turbocharged engine that makes something like 270HP. So yeah, it's kind of fast, faster than you're used to if your last car was a Honda Civic. For $33K, or a few dollars more than a Ford F-150 pickup truck, which is not a yuppie douchebag's car.

mcseanerson > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 11:28

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My opinion of BMW drivers is the same as it is of Honda drivers. Typically they have a smugness to them about their car and it shows in how they drive from cutting across 4 lanes, or driving 20+ over the limit treating the evening commute like it's a racetrack. Now I don't think that all BMW and Honda drivers are assholes, but I do believe the majority of asshole drivers are Honda and BMW drivers. I state this from what me and my carpool observed on my 75 mile one way commute day in and day out.

E92M3 > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 11:36

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I will admit that I myself used to think of BMW's as nothing but status symbols. Unreliable, expensive to maintain, and just a bad decision for anyone to buy one. I was a honda fanboy that had worked my way up to an S2000. I started doing trackdays, and I found myself amazed that these sedans were 3-4 seconds a lap faster that I was. This was before the turbo craze we have now, and I was an accomplished kart racer so I wasn't exactly new when it comes to racetracks.

Then my wife had a business trip to Germany one October, and I decided to tag along. I started looking at what was available at Sixt Rent-A-Car. I decided to splurge for an M3 just to see what all the fuss was about. I was CERTAIN I wasn't going to like it. After a week blasting down the autobahn, and 5 laps on The Ring I found myself in love. Once I got back to the states I immediately sold the S2000 and found an E46 M3.

To answer your question though there absolutely is a social tax when it comes to owning a BMW. Mine was 5 years old at the time (and less than the price of a Camry). No one questions the guy with the new $50K pickup truck, but even when my M3 was 9 yrs old people made assumptions. Some coworkers even decided they didn't like me because they had higher titles and were driving Fords. Life wasn't "fair". They assume either your a trust fund baby, you're doing something illegal, or you're in immense debt and therefore an idiot (None of which are true in my case). All for a car that's worth $25K. It just boggles their minds. Each of them could of had one themselves, but they insist on only buying NEW cars. Buying a new car every 3-5 years, and trading in the old one (instead of selling it private party). Which is fine, but don't be jealous towards my approach. I've even had some friendships tested, and some ended over owning an M3. Which is really sad. Do I really have to drive a boring beigemobile to fit in? My attitude is I don't care anymore. I drive what I want to drive. After all I'm the one spending 10 hrs a week in it not anyone else. My personal opinion is anyone that slams BMW's hasn't driven one. I was that guy myself at one time.

burntartichoke > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 11:42

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Parking terribly, driving terribly, buying the car as an accessory/status symbol, lack of common curtsey, false self importance, didn't check the optional extra box for turn signals. Yes there are lots of BMW drivers that do not do the things listed above but there are enough that do who ruin it for everyone else but until the BMW community and more importantly, the company, lynch all of them, the stereotypes will persist.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 11:47

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is there this unavoidable stigma that you have to take on?

Pretty much, but I won't allow other people's perception of me, based on nothing more than my car, affect my decision making process. That's on them.

For what it's worth, I try to do my part to counteract it, one friendly wave and blinker at a time...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > For Sweden 11/19/2014 at 11:47

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*some

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > E92M3 11/19/2014 at 11:52

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Friendships ended over the M3? Geez... For what, simple jealousy?

I'm with you, if people judge you based solely on what you drive, that's on them.

For Sweden > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 11/19/2014 at 11:53

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#notallBMWdrivers

GhostZ > The Gray Adder 11/19/2014 at 12:01

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You're right, but I'm not seeing what this means for the BMW driver stereotype.

Damasconian > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 12:05

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I just spent 5 months ordering, travelling (Euro Delivery) and waiting for my M4 to get in. I can comment on this better than most because I just went through the process. What you don't understand is that a lot of people buy cars for themselves and their own enjoyment, not what others think. I literally spent no time worrying about what my fellow drives think of my purchase.

I could care less the guy in the Subaru thinks I'm an asshole because I drive a BMW. I didn't buy it for him, and I didn't buy it for the hot gal in my office. I bought it for me. Why do some people have such a hard understanding that? I care what you think about my car about as much as I care on your opinion of my wife. Or where I live. Or how I dress.

Are some BMW drivers assholes? Yes, but so are drivers of every car.

I am in my 30's. This is my first really nice car. I'm sure as hell am going to be proud to drive it around town. My driving habits will not change at all: Ill continue to park properly, drive with respect to others and obey the rules of road. I am an enthusiast. If you are an enthusiast and want to chat me up about my car (or yours) then prepare for a long conversation. And a ride in it. And maybe a test drive of your own depending on how nice/competent you seem to be.

The hate for BMW drivers is unjust.

Damasconian > For Sweden 11/19/2014 at 12:08

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In your mind only. I was a Toyota driver before my BMW, do you now think Ill start driving worse?

bpromersberger > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 12:13

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Depends I guess. I used to drive a tastefully modified E46, may she rest in piece. In one day I had three people shout out "Fuck you and your fuckin car" . It became common place after a while. Little did they know it was 13 years old, with 200k miles, and I just took good care of it. But after it was totaled I bought a friends E39 for less than well worn Civic. No one gives me a second look unless they know cars or hear me open it up (res delete dual exhaust).

I honestly don't understand why this was the case. I've been a respectful driver, not being a left lane bandit, using my turn signals and not tailgating. But for some reason people hate me for driving 13-15 year old german beaters.

GhostZ > Damasconian 11/19/2014 at 12:13

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This isn't asking SHOULD you buy, or WOULD you buy, but whether or not

a fully-informed consumer has to consider the "social tax" to make a rational purchase.

We all know that if you buy a car, you should buy it and drive it because you want it, but that doesn't answer the question. The stigma could be completely wrong, baseless, and misinformed, but if it still exists, it still exists.

The question is whether or not the stigma exists, not what you think of it. So I'm guessing from you post you do agree that the hate for BMW drivers exists, but it's just unfair? Ie, every car has bad drivers, but only BMW drivers get judged for it?

Textured Soy Protein > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 12:15

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This is my BMW, which makes me look like a dbag, even though I'm just a decently paid guy with a cheap house and no debt which combined with BMW's frankly ridiculous lease deals, allows me to splurge a little bit on a nice car.

When I got it, I knew it would make me look like a dbag, but I got it anyway, because I like how it drives.

The finance guy tried real hard to convince me to pay 500 bucks to tint the windows. He was all like, "you've got the Carbon Black car with the blacked out window trim, you gotta tint the windows, it'll look SOOOOOO MUCH BETTER, oh my god you have to do it."

That was the point at which I drew the line on dbagness. I'm not a fan of tinted windows in general, and I certainly wasn't going to spend good money to look like even more of a prick than the car already makes me look like.

Oh, and I use my turn signals, religiously.

GhostZ > Textured Soy Protein 11/19/2014 at 12:17

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When I got it, I knew it would make me look like a dbag, but I got it anyway, because I like how it drives.

This is exactly my stance on these things (which I tried to be unbiased about). I love BMWs, but if I buy one, I will keep in mind what people think about me when I do it because I think there's a very real stigma I'd have to live with. It's not enough to prevent me from buying a good car, but it's enough to at least make me aware of it enough not to aggravate it by driving poorly or tinting my windows too dark.

I think this is the best, most realistic representation. The Tax is that you wouldn't do anything to aggravate others's negativity, but not necessarily prevent you from buying the car, right?

Textured Soy Protein > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 12:23

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I look at it this way: regardless of what vehicle someone drives, if they drive like an asshole, they will piss off other drivers. I generally try not to drive like an asshole, although I'm not perfect and have moments of assholeish driving.

Having a fast, nimble car, does make you drive like more of an asshole. Because you feel like you can make that yellow light, or squeeze into that gap in traffic, or out-drag someone to that next onramp. When I'm driving my Grand Cherokee, I have far fewer episodes of assholeish driving, because it's like a big couch, and I don't feel confident in my ability to make those asshole moves.

That said, I'm well aware that the sentence, "I have a BMW and a Jeep to drive in winter," makes me come off like a rich schmuck, so if people look at me cross-eyed when I mention it, I often qualify it with "but I can only afford the BMW because it's a lease, and the Jeep's 15 years old."

E92M3 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 11/19/2014 at 12:31

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Yes! It wasn't immediate but his snark comments grew old after a while, and one day I admittedly blew up. At first it seemed like he was trying to be funny. Eventually you could see it was deep down and really bothered him (which in turn really bothered me). Again he could of afforded his own, but he spent $30k making his backyard an oasis instead. I just don't get it. If he had a Ferrari F40 I would honestly be happy for him.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > E92M3 11/19/2014 at 12:42

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Yeah, I don't get jealousy either. It's just a toxic feeling that can only lead to bad decisions/actions, but some people can not help it from contaminating their life.

I come from a family that didn't have much. We never went hungry, but money was always tight. It was a motivating factor for me to find success. Before I bought my car, I considered how it would be perceived by my parents and siblings (and friends, to a lesser extent), but ended up deciding that this was one of my true passions in life and that if I could afford it, other's opinions shouldn't matter. My family was definitely surprised at the purchase (honestly, I shocked myself that I actually bought it!), but were all very happy for me, and since then, I've been able to share my joy with them by letting them all drive it.

Definitely no regrets.

Damasconian > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 12:46

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What I'm saying is regardless if there is a social tax or not, it never crossed my mind when buying the car. I knew I could finally afford something I wanted since the 8th grade and pulled the trigger. Im getting to the other replies now.

Damasconian > E92M3 11/19/2014 at 12:49

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If you lost friends over a car, they weren't real friends to begin with.

Damasconian > Textured Soy Protein 11/19/2014 at 12:51

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Why for a second would you think this car makes you look like a dbag? I look at that car and think "that guys loves to drive and Im happy he gets to roll around town all day in that car". So congratulations to you for owning and driving such a great vehicle.

DrScientist > Party-vi 11/19/2014 at 12:52

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double breasted no less.

Damasconian > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 12:54

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Again - Why do you care so much about what people think? Its your car, not theirs. Everything you do outside of the car will determine your level of kindness or graciousness, not what you do in it. Treat people kindly and they will think you are a kind person. Treat them poorly and that will also be reflected in what they think of you.

A car should not factor into that equation at all. Unless you cut me off, then your a total dick.

DrScientist > The Gray Adder 11/19/2014 at 12:56

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are 320's available here in the states?

i do think the bmw driver perception is a US-specific situation. likely because more attainable bmw's are not imported into the country.

additionally, i assume, and this is a big assumption and please correct me if i'm wrong, import taxes probably elevate the cost of a bmw comparatively to competing vehicles when considering its costs in europe, where they may be driven by a more solidly middle class population.

FromCanadaWithLove > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 12:57

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I'm a BMW driver, and daily drive an M235i. (I feel like I'm writing for AA or something). Social tax is a double edged sword. Yes, there are certainly pricks in BMWs (though, not in my city. Infiniti attracts that crowd here. I guess we're lucky.). It becomes a completely different issue once you own a BMW, however.

I'll try to keep this succinct. I used to own a 2011 Volkswagen Jetta TDI. It was white. It was also boring, uninspired, unreliable, and incredibly efficient on fuel. The warranty was up, so I followed my heart rather than my brain. I wanted a powerful, RWD car with the tiniest of chassis. That led me to the M235i. I chose it because of what it can do, rather than what brand it is. The badge makes no difference.

Now, as soon as I picked it up and gleefully showed it off to friends, I got two reactions:

"Sweet M3, man!" and "Bright red BMW? That's embarrassing..."

Those are direct quotes. (You can tell I need more enthusiast friends). I'm the same person I was when I drove a VW and Chevrolet, but because I'm in a BMW, people I know judge me.

With these encounters, I try to be nice, in and out of the car. I say my thank you's, sorry's, and I dot my I's and cross my T's.

#we'renotallpricks

Textured Soy Protein > Damasconian 11/19/2014 at 13:04

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I'm fairly confident that more people's reaction to a black 2-door BMW is "what a dbag," rather than your reaction.

Not that I care if that's what they think—I like my car and if other people think it makes me a prick, so be it.

SoManyBlueCars > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 13:09

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The main issue is that to many people who buy them are not into this:

If you want to drive fast and turn in sharp, and park however you want in the paddocks with your shit all over the place, then go to a track!

The really interesting thing? When I drive my M3, no one bothers me. Not to race, or park to close, or cut me off...nothing. BUT:

In my DD 328? Exact opposite. My M Sport and Estoril Blue paint don't help, but it seems like an invitation to attract other assholes.

I do a lot of advertising work for them. Brand perception is not a negative for them, trust me. And really, the way people think of what you drive, or dress, or date, or whatever...that's just a mental tax that you never have to pay if you don't want to.

GhostZ > Damasconian 11/19/2014 at 13:18

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Again - Why do you care so much about what people think?

Because analyzing and understanding the way people make purchases is a fairly important part of understanding the economy, which is what I'm very interested in.

And again, the question is not " should people judge you based on your car", but whether they do or not regardless of what is right or wrong. We're asking if people treat BMW drivers differently regardless of how they act because of the social perception, and whether or not that influences people's buying habits.

E92M3 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 11/19/2014 at 13:18

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That's awesome! I wish my family were like that. Even some of them are envious, or just don't get it. It could be a 328i and they would still act the same way. My dad is really the only one that doesn't care one way or the other, besides wishing I had got a Mustang GT instead. He's a car guy too though (mostly admires classics).

GhostZ > Damasconian 11/19/2014 at 13:22

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(saw this after my most recent reply)

The best way someone else put it here was that they are very aware of the social stigma, and wouldn't do anything to aggravate it (they drive very carefully and turned down tinted windows, for example, to avoid being more of a douchebag) but it didn't change their mind about whether or not to buy the car.

GhostZ > Tripper 11/19/2014 at 13:26

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There's a surprising amount of peer pressure to buy BMW or Audi in some professional fields, I think, and most people don't realize it until they actually see it in front of their face.

GhostZ > E30Joe drives a Subaru 11/19/2014 at 13:28

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I've heard at least twice from non-car people that they believe that BMW dealerships are special, or offer special services, that when you buy a BMW you're buying a "package" of no-questions-asked luxury, so the maintenance cost is "factored in" to the purchase price. I wonder what started that idea and why its spread...

Damasconian > Textured Soy Protein 11/19/2014 at 13:30

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Not to be difficult, but I disagree. I honestly don't think your car elicits that response. I love it, btw.

Damasconian > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 13:33

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I like your approach to this discussion, you have a lot of interesting points to share.

At this point you know my response, I didn't think about it and the tax never crossed my mind. Your point here is good, I try to not be a dick when driving (in any car) and would hate to perpetuate the stigma that some people have on luxury cars.

dirthoon > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 13:37

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I argue that all cars are subject to the 4-way opinion matrix. BMW's especially so. The first direction is no F's given. This is people who usually don't actually realize that your car was made by someone. THIS IS 85% of people. Most people don't sit in your car and go "Oh I see you have seats and wheels which come from Bavaria or South Carolina....nice." Second, is the Unrepentant hater for whatever reason they just hate BMW. Too unreliable, not a Mercedes, Ugly, cheaper than their cousin's friend's uncle's Bugatti, or driven by asshats. Third, are the general fan boys/girls. "Oh a BMW that is expensive" they may say to your 12k E39 M5. Fourth, are other BMW owners. They fall in the above three categories, but they also own a BMW. Note this metric fits with Lambo's, Kia's, STI's, and anything else with wheels.

E30Joe drives a Subaru > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 13:55

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We do provide some service above what a typical honda or toyota dealer would provide. We offer free of charge loaner vehicles (all 2014+ model year cars), one of our stores has a movie theater in it so you can watch a movie while you wait for fast service, we do have lots of special events and stuff. But we are not catering to every need of the customer. Some believe that they are deserving of more because they spent more on a car.

HeathJokerSick > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 14:03

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Good question. I say yes, as BMW (along with Audi/Mercedes) have totally turned into a leasing company that also happens to sell cars. Therefore, you have a bunch of young folks with a leased 328 that believe their exhaust don't smell.

Quixotic > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 14:22

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Sure. I hate BMW drivers, so now I hate myself. That's my reply to the folks who give me a hard time. As a beater convertible with a back seat for the kids, it beats the awful Sebring I had before. Social stigma from strangers? Sure, but again no worse than my usual car that looks as if it should have UNINSURED spray-painted down the sides. If you worry about the opinions of strangers, you have a lot of suffering ahead of you.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > E92M3 11/19/2014 at 14:27

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The "car guy" gene is in our blood. My dad, when he was young and single, bought a used 356 B Super 90 in Germany, and brought it back to the States. Had to sell it and ended up with a long line of beaters once he and my mom started having kids, but he's always loved to drive. He turned 77 this year, and I keep getting on him to get another sports car to enjoy for his remaining years at the wheel.

JerseyJoey > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 14:40

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Psh, I wanted one, so I bought one. That simple. I don't think what others will think of me, or anything else you mentioned in this article for that matter.

AthomSfere > mcseanerson 11/19/2014 at 14:49

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70% of my cars have been Honda / Acura (7 out of ten 10) and I can say hands down they have been the best cars I have owned. Even now, I drive an Si and consider it one of the best cars Honda has ever made...

All that said, I really hate owning a Civic Si sometimes. Reasons:

The kids at the drive through that stopped me to say "nice JDM". Um what? "Your front, its red. Thats soooo JDM, right?"

The Hondas, Nissans, BMWs etc. etc. that can't be dissuaded from trying to make pulls next to me.

Of course, it doesn't get any better with non-enthusiasts/ car people.

"You drive a civic? Awesome, I really want a Prius or a Civic Hybrid"

"Why do you put premium in a Honda?"

Tripper > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 15:34

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It's kinda true. I work for an executive search firm, and I'm the only car enthusiast. Most of the guys drive Mercs (there are 3 almost identical S550's), a few of the others drive Audis, but I'm the lone bimmer.

E92M3 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 11/19/2014 at 15:57

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That's good, and he should get something to enjoy while he can still drive. My dad is similar age (74). Right now he drives an old 90 Crown Vic. He says he hopes it will last till he can't drive anymore. If I was his age I would feel a sudden urge to try everything I could in my last years, and would probably get something different every year.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > E92M3 11/19/2014 at 16:03

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Exactly! Variety is the spice of life, as they say.

My parents have a very used Lexus with a ton of miles, and my mom always sits in the back and lets my dad chauffeur her around (so a two-seater is probably out of the question).

AndyJ > Textured Soy Protein 11/19/2014 at 16:28

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Car looks pretty sweet. I'm a fan of tinted windows, because Texas. lol

AndyJ > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 16:35

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I believe maintenance is built into the first 4 years of a BMW's "life," but if they think it's "lifetime" then I don't know what to say about that.

As far as being special, I took mine in for a warranty recall (which was apparently already done), and was treated extremely well by the service manager, and they weren't even the selling dealer (had license plate holders from the selling dealer on the car). Hell, the service manager apologized for only having one loaner left for me to use. A 2014 328i with 200 miles on the clock. Yeah, I sure felt dejected compared to my warranty experiences with Ford and GM, where I was stuffed into whatever cheap econobox that the onsite Enterprise agency had in stock. LOL

cayman2007 > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 19:07

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Most BMW drivers are courteous and go about their business like anyone else.. but if you own a M3 or M5 I know with 100% certainty you're gonna cut me off and drive like a complete asshat. Swerving in and out lanes, tailgating, yakking on their cell phone, you name it... why??? When I bought my Porsche I expected people to automatically assume I'm a douche, so I go out of my way to be courteous and polite. I keep in my own lane and mind my own business, the track is the place to push the car and (your skills) to the limit. The only good thing that came from the "Porsche stigma" was when I heard my ex-wife cried when she found out I bought a Porsche. That was awesome.

Me > GhostZ 11/19/2014 at 20:35

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exact reason I dont drive a BMW. Because I want to be able to drive like a dbag under the raider.

mybeatersabimmer > Textured Soy Protein 11/20/2014 at 11:33

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Imagine how it sounds when I say I have a Porsche and a BMW to drive in the winter... and I'm 19. You can't care what other people think.

Mike_Smith > GhostZ 11/20/2014 at 12:06

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Put another way, the question is "when I buy a BMW, should I care about other people's irrational stereotypes and judgmental prejudices about me?". Would you ask that question to a black man walking in a white neighborhood? Would you ask that question to a rape victim who happened to be wearing a short skirt at the time? The problem here isn't with the BMW owner (unless he or she also, coincidentally, happens to actually be a douchebag, which may have nothing to do with one's choice of car), it's with the people who give in to irrational stereotypes. (Not a BMW owner, BTW - no personal skin in this game.)

GhostZ > Mike_Smith 11/20/2014 at 12:16

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Not sure you read the article right, and changing the question entirely to something that's obviously a problem doesn't mean the original question was one.

It isn't asking if you should care about people's stereotypes, but whether or not those stereotypes exist in a meaningful way, or are just a product of the media.

Mike_Smith > GhostZ 11/20/2014 at 12:26

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Your words: "This isn't asking SHOULD you buy, or WOULD you buy, but whether or not a fully-informed consumer has to consider the "social tax" to make a rational purchase . " That sounds to me an awful lot like my (intentionally somewhat spun) paraphrase: "when I buy a BMW, should I care about other people's irrational stereotypes and judgmental prejudices about me?" I am trying to point out that yes, your original question is a problem.

GhostZ > Mike_Smith 11/20/2014 at 12:51

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You're assuming that considering it in your purchase means you have to care about it.

It doesn't mean you have to care about it, you just have to acknowledge it exists. Some people may LIKE the stigma, some people may not, and most people are indifferent. But regardless of their opinion on it, do they acknowledge it?

It's like if every BMW came with door handles that were painted a different color. A well-informed consumer would have to be aware of that. Some people like those handles, some don't, and it may be a completely irrational and silly aspect of the product, but it exists . To pretend it doesn't exist would be ignorance.

TheInfamousMisterLicious > GhostZ 03/09/2015 at 14:40

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The interesting other side of this is that the BMW forums tend to be incredibly helpful people with expertise on the maintenance and upgrading of the cars. Specifically, I've found BMW, Ford Panther, and Jaguar forums to be vastly more helpful than Volvo (inside jokes and neckbeards) and Honda (JDM, yo!) forums.

I'll gladly pay my social tax for being thought of as an asshole for the enjoyment and cost efficacy of my (salvage title) e90 335i.

TheInfamousMisterLicious > For Sweden 03/09/2015 at 14:43

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In my experience, Volvo people are far more "terrible people" than BMW folks - which was one of the reasons that turned me away from from the swedes (that, and fail wheel drive). Have you been to Volvospeed.com (or worse, the Carlisle show), for example?

For Sweden > TheInfamousMisterLicious 03/09/2015 at 14:44

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Quiet Anglo